[SIPForum-techwg] Call Transfer initiated from SP network

[Francois Audet]

I'm with Joanne. I don't believe we did at all agree to not mandate REFER support for receiving REFER. Au contraire...
 
My take is that we should make support for supporting incoming REFER a MUST. Of course, that does not preclude the PBX from selectively disallowing making outbound calls to specific location. PBXs always have class of service restriction services that will decide who can make "long-distance" calls or whatever. The point in this case is not that the PBX supports or not REFER: the point is can the user/trunk group/whatever make a call (the one initiated after the REFER) to a number that is a long distance (or has a different class of service).
 
Again, dealing with such issues at the protocol level by disabling very useful SIP messages, which implies replacing the SIP proxy with a B2BUA, is completely mind-boggling.
 
I see no evidence suggesting that it is impossible for a SP to bill properly for a call transfer service based on REFER. It can easily correlate it to the existing call. Especially if Replaces header is used.
 


________________________________

	From: Joanne McMillen [mailto:joanne at avaya.com] 
	Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 16:19
	To: Cullen Jennings
	Cc: Audet, Francois (SC100:3055); Theo Zourzouvillys; techwg at sipforum.org
	Subject: Re: [SIPForum-techwg] Call Transfer initiated from SP network
	
	
	We did?
	 
	Hmmm... 
	 
	This thread was all about telling some entity how to build their charging application
	and when to bill and when not to. ;-)
	 
	I, for one, made no statement whatsoever about whether a PBX must or must not
	support REFER receipt, but they sure should - the market will point that out for them if they do not... ;-)
	 
	I do however firmly believe that this recommendation has no business telling anyone how and when to bill.
	If something is missing to allow an entity to determine that then fine, add it, but I see nothing
	missing in protocol at all for an entity to determine that...
	 

		----- Original Message ----- 
		From: Cullen Jennings <mailto:fluffy at cisco.com>  
		To: Joanne McMillen <mailto:joanne at avaya.com>  
		Cc: Francois Audet <mailto:audet at nortel.com>  ; Theo Zourzouvillys <mailto:theo at voip.co.uk>  ; techwg at sipforum.org 
		Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 3:42 PM
		Subject: Re: [SIPForum-techwg] Call Transfer initiated from SP network


		Great, so it sounds like we all agree to remove text that says PBX  
		MUST support receiving a REFER and instead add text that in many  
		situations PBX are likely to reject any REFER received over SIP Trunk.
		
		On Feb 23, 2009, at 1:39 PM, Joanne McMillen wrote:
		
		> I agree 100%...
		>
		> We should be dealing only with basic call protocol interop - not  
		> feature interop. How and when anyone does
		> billing is certainly not for SIP Forum to say. If some entity does  
		> not have the
		> information they would need for billing (no matter how they do it),  
		> then it
		> would be the SIP Forum's issue to provide that in signaling. It sure  
		> should not be the SIP Forum's purview to define
		> how anyone actually does billing.
		>
		> I don't see anything deficient though in this spec for folks to  
		> build a billing application
		> however they see fit. If there is one (a deficiency) in signaling,  
		> where is it exactly?
		>
		> ----- Original Message -----
		> From: Francois Audet
		> To: Theo Zourzouvillys ; Cullen Jennings
		> Cc: techwg at sipforum.org
		> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:08 PM
		> Subject: Re: [SIPForum-techwg] Call Transfer initiated from SP network
		>
		> I really think billing is totally innapropriate for this spec.
		>
		> And I really think that protocol decisions should not be affected by
		> billing concerns either.
		>
		> Service Providers are big boys: they can figure it out by themselves.
		>
		> > -----Original Message-----
		> > From: techwg-bounces at sipforum.org
		> > [mailto:techwg-bounces at sipforum.org] On Behalf Of Theo Zourzouvillys
		> > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:28
		> > To: Cullen Jennings
		> > Cc: techwg at sipforum.org
		> > Subject: Re: [SIPForum-techwg] Call Transfer initiated from SP  
		> network
		> >
		> > On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Cullen Jennings
		> > <fluffy at cisco.com> wrote:
		> >
		> > > How do the SP folks feel about adding the text
		> > >
		> > > If the A sends a refer to B to call C. The SP MUST NOT bill
		> > B for the
		> > > call to C but MAY bill A.
		> >
		> > I really, really don't like this - please don't force a
		> > billing model on us (service providers)!
		> >
		> >  ~ Theo
		> >
		> > --
		> > Theo Zourzouvillys
		> > Chief Technical Officer
		> > VoIP.co.uk
		> >
		> > Sent from: Bicester Oxfordshire United Kingdom.
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		> > Send mail to: techwg at sipforum.org
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		> >
		>
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